Doc AV's Serial Number Survey Results
The following represents the results of Doc AV's serial number survey that is on ParallaxBill's Turkish Mauser Forum. These results
have been edited to improve the presentation.
17 September '02:
Hi-Lo Numbers by years for K'kale marked rifles:
1940 xx to 2659x Too small to estimate production, probably 30,000
1941 568xx to 5940x Too Small to estimate production, probably 30,000
1942 64749 to 11097x At least 50,000 rifles.
1943 124242 to 152xxx?? At least 40,000 rifles.
1944 1505xx to 192119 At least 42,000 rifles, maybe 50,000
1945 200271 to 210022 At least 11,000 rifles.
1946 224423 to 237721 At least 13,000 rifles.
Probably 240-250,000 produced over all, if one includes the 1944-46? run of
K'Kale marked SHORT RIFLES in the total.
All Kirikkale marked Rifles have the "B" mark on them, on various parts and
under the receiver; some stocks also have "ATF" and "B" on them. The production
figures mirror the war in Europe: Ramping up production in 1940, increasing as
Germany invaded the Balkans and then Russia: At peak during the Russian
campaign, Tapering off as the war ended, with rundown post war.
The Turks, although neutral, were courted by both Germany and the Allies.They
staunchly maintained their neutrality to the end of the war, giving haven to
Germans escaping the Russian Juggernaut in Bulgaria and Romania in 1944, and
from the Allies in Greece in 1944-45.
Of course their surrendered Kar98ks etc. were immediately absorbed by the
Turkish Army.
Regards, Doc AV
An update today, 11/11/02 (last one 17 September '02):
All numbers are sequential for a particular type, although some types were made
in several distinct series, and have separate serial runs.
K'Kale (M40) Low: 1940, #xx High: 1946, #238207.
Any numbers higher or lower than these, please advise.
K'Kale Short Rifle (M44): Low: 1944, #4193 High: 1946, #12530.
M1890/30? One only noted,#201xx;
M1893/33: Three or four variants (Straight stock, Pistol grip stock, cutoff box
present, cutoff box milled out; Script present, script scrubbed): Low: 1933 #
243; High: 1940 #122xxx(?) and ?? 1943?? #136583?
M1888/35 (full rebuild): Low: 1935, #13xx; High: 1940, #14144
M1888 Carbine (1920s cut down of Gew88)
: #30xx (date?)
M1903/30: Low: 1931,#12xx; High: 1937,#30410.
M1903/38 Short Rifle: 1937 (1st Series) #2xx to #1822;
1938 (2nd series) Low 1938 #20, High 1939 #2528
Gew98 Rebuilds: 1937-39 series: Low #226; High #14177 (?)
1940-49 series: Low # 26xx; High #35770
ATF (54-60) series: Low 1954 #0171 High 1954 # 6920.
More details and dates needed on "ATF" marked rifles.
Exotica: Enfauser/ Mausenfield (various derivations): 1936,#12xx (come on,
there are at least 50 in the US)
Just going on the serial #s alone, by 1950, Turkey must have had some 500,000
Mausers in 7,9mm available: 250,000 Kirikkale models, 15,000 Gew88/35 types, 120,000 M1893/33 types, at
least 30,000 M1903/30 types, 15,000-20,000 Short rifles, and probably a 100,000 Vz98/22 Rifles, as well as quite a few thousand of Gew98,
kar98a, and kar98k and gew88 unconverted, as well as some of the original 7,65
rifles as well.
regards,
Doc AV
1/9/03 Update:
To all owners of Turked Gew98s (1937 and 1940 series as per survey). Initial
results seem to show that there are TWO series of Converted Gew98 rifles to the
"03" stock format, the First series, 1937-39, and a second series, 1940 to 49.
We will ignore the ATF series of the 1950s. The cross over from the 37/39
series to the 40/49 series is shown by only two examples with serials which
would demonstrate this break in series; without these, the series seems to run
right through, without a break. I would appreciate more examples of Converted
Gew98s from the 39 and 40 years, to prove or disprove this hypothesis.
At the present time, we have 1937, Low # 226, High #4185
1938, #10034 (??? c.be 39?)
1939, Low #8328, High #14177;
And then 1940, Low # 26xx & #3127, and High # 18xxx and #20237
If those two 1940 Low numbers are
actually (a) Misread, (b) double numbered, or (c) K/kale numbers rather than
Gew98 numbers, then the "Two series" scenario falls flat, and the Gew98s run in
only one series from '37 to '49.
We do know for a certain fact that the
"Short Rifles" ( m1903/37 etc.) run in several series...there are relatively
more examples noted.
The other problem is the size of the imprints on
1938 and 39 dated ANKARA Refurbs... numerous times these have been misread (8
for 9 and Vice-versa). One really needs to use a magnifying lens to distinguish
the correct date on these rifles.( problem occurs on M88/05/35, M1903/30 and
Gew98/37.) BTW, we also need converted Gew98 numbers for 1941, 42, 44, 45 and
46; so far I know of only one 42, and have no others to date. The spread of
numbers (40,43,47) seems to cover only about 6,000 rifles, so it could be that
in some years there were none converted.
1/1/04 Update:
As to the validity of the "M1903/30"
designation, the earliest M1903/30 I have is a 5xx of 1931; Someone has
mentioned having a M1890 with an ASFA conversion stamp of 1929; as the use of
the Roman script was mandated in the 1928-29 period, the earliest
"Possible" model number for a M1903 conversion would be 1930. it may
be that only very few were done in 1930, the main conversion being underway by
1931. Until I have definitive documentary evidence of a different commencement
date, my information, scant as it is, from Turkish industrial history sources,
would make the " 03/30" designation the most plausible at the present
time.
As to the other conversions (M98/37 long rifle conversions...refurbed Gew98s)
these could be classed as one model series with two serial number batches, or
separate model numbers according to the years of the serial series (I have done
the latter). The same applies to the Model 1903/37 short rifles, with two
series, 1937 and 1938-9; As to the "ATF Rifles" (1954-56), one could
call them "M98/54" or simply "M98 ATF" Model.
