Doc AV's Serial Number Survey Results

The following represents the results of Doc AV's serial number survey that is on ParallaxBill's Turkish Mauser Forum. These results have been edited to improve the presentation.

17 September '02:

Hi-Lo Numbers by years for K'kale marked rifles:

1940 xx to 2659x Too small to estimate production, probably 30,000

1941 568xx to 5940x Too Small to estimate production, probably 30,000

1942 64749 to 11097x At least 50,000 rifles.

1943 124242 to 152xxx?? At least 40,000 rifles.

1944 1505xx to 192119 At least 42,000 rifles, maybe 50,000

1945 200271 to 210022 At least 11,000 rifles.

1946 224423 to 237721 At least 13,000 rifles.

Probably 240-250,000 produced over all, if one includes the 1944-46? run of K'Kale marked SHORT RIFLES in the total.

All Kirikkale marked Rifles have the "B" mark on them, on various parts and under the receiver; some stocks also have "ATF" and "B" on them. The production figures mirror the war in Europe: Ramping up production in 1940, increasing as Germany invaded the Balkans and then Russia: At peak during the Russian campaign, Tapering off as the war ended, with rundown post war.

The Turks, although neutral, were courted by both Germany and the Allies.They staunchly maintained their neutrality to the end of the war, giving haven to Germans escaping the Russian Juggernaut in Bulgaria and Romania in 1944, and from the Allies in Greece in 1944-45.
Of course their surrendered Kar98ks etc. were immediately absorbed by the Turkish Army.

Regards, Doc AV

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An update today, 11/11/02 (last one 17 September '02):
All numbers are sequential for a particular type, although some types were made in several distinct series, and have separate serial runs.

K'Kale (M40) Low: 1940, #xx High: 1946, #238207.
Any numbers higher or lower than these, please advise.

K'Kale Short Rifle (M44): Low: 1944, #4193 High: 1946, #12530.

M1890/30? One only noted,#201xx;

M1893/33: Three or four variants (Straight stock, Pistol grip stock, cutoff box present, cutoff box milled out; Script present, script scrubbed): Low: 1933 # 243; High: 1940 #122xxx(?) and ?? 1943?? #136583?

M1888/35 (full rebuild): Low: 1935, #13xx; High: 1940, #14144
M1888 Carbine (1920s cut down of Gew88) : #30xx (date?)

M1903/30: Low: 1931,#12xx; High: 1937,#30410.

M1903/38 Short Rifle: 1937 (1st Series) #2xx to #1822;
1938 (2nd series) Low 1938 #20, High 1939 #2528

Gew98 Rebuilds: 1937-39 series: Low #226; High #14177 (?)
1940-49 series: Low # 26xx; High #35770
ATF (54-60) series: Low 1954 #0171 High 1954 # 6920.

More details and dates needed on "ATF" marked rifles.

Exotica: Enfauser/ Mausenfield (various derivations): 1936,#12xx (come on, there are at least 50 in the US)

Just going on the serial #s alone, by 1950, Turkey must have had some 500,000 Mausers in 7,9mm available: 250,000 Kirikkale models, 15,000 Gew88/35 types, 120,000 M1893/33 types, at least 30,000 M1903/30 types, 15,000-20,000 Short rifles, and probably a 100,000 Vz98/22 Rifles, as well as quite a few thousand of Gew98, kar98a, and kar98k and gew88 unconverted, as well as some of the original 7,65 rifles as well.

regards,
Doc AV

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1/9/03 Update:

To all owners of Turked Gew98s (1937 and 1940 series as per survey). Initial results seem to show that there are TWO series of Converted Gew98 rifles to the "03" stock format, the First series, 1937-39, and a second series, 1940 to 49. We will ignore the ATF series of the 1950s. The cross over from the 37/39 series to the 40/49 series is shown by only two examples with serials which would demonstrate this break in series; without these, the series seems to run right through, without a break. I would appreciate more examples of Converted Gew98s from the 39 and 40 years, to prove or disprove this hypothesis.

At the present time, we have 1937, Low # 226, High #4185 
1938, #10034 (??? c.be 39?) 
1939, Low #8328, High #14177; 
And then 1940, Low # 26xx & #3127, and High # 18xxx and #20237 

If those two 1940 Low numbers are actually (a) Misread, (b) double numbered, or (c) K/kale numbers rather than Gew98 numbers, then the "Two series" scenario falls flat, and the Gew98s run in only one series from '37 to '49. 

We do know for a certain fact that the "Short Rifles" ( m1903/37 etc.) run in several series...there are relatively more examples noted. 

The other problem is the size of the imprints on 1938 and 39 dated ANKARA Refurbs... numerous times these have been misread (8 for 9 and Vice-versa). One really needs to use a magnifying lens to distinguish the correct date on these rifles.( problem occurs on M88/05/35, M1903/30 and Gew98/37.) BTW, we also need converted Gew98 numbers for 1941, 42, 44, 45 and 46; so far I know of only one 42, and have no others to date. The spread of numbers (40,43,47) seems to cover only about 6,000 rifles, so it could be that in some years there were none converted.

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1/1/04 Update:

As to the validity of the "M1903/30" designation, the earliest M1903/30 I have is a 5xx of 1931; Someone has mentioned having a M1890 with an ASFA conversion stamp of 1929; as the use of the Roman script was mandated in the 1928-29 period, the earliest "Possible" model number for a M1903 conversion would be 1930. it may be that only very few were done in 1930, the main conversion being underway by 1931. Until I have definitive documentary evidence of a different commencement date, my information, scant as it is, from Turkish industrial history sources, would make the " 03/30" designation the most plausible at the present time.

As to the other conversions (M98/37 long rifle conversions...refurbed Gew98s) these could be classed as one model series with two serial number batches, or separate model numbers according to the years of the serial series (I have done the latter). The same applies to the Model 1903/37 short rifles, with two series, 1937 and 1938-9; As to the "ATF Rifles" (1954-56), one could call them "M98/54" or simply "M98 ATF" Model.